Comments on: The unsittable fence http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/the-unsittable-fence/ Celebrating the power of the Web Fri, 26 Aug 2011 20:00:51 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Web Things, by Mark Baker » Blog Archive » Fence sitting arguments http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/the-unsittable-fence/comment-page-1/#comment-98 Web Things, by Mark Baker » Blog Archive » Fence sitting arguments Thu, 20 Sep 2007 04:29:40 +0000 http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/13/the-unsittable-fence/#comment-98 [...] the top two arguments by those who feel there’s value in both the Web and Web services (the “fence sitters”, as Mark recalls me calling them [...] [...] the top two arguments by those who feel there’s value in both the Web and Web services (the “fence sitters”, as Mark recalls me calling them [...]

]]> By: discipline and punish http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/the-unsittable-fence/comment-page-1/#comment-97 discipline and punish Wed, 30 Aug 2006 12:40:23 +0000 http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/13/the-unsittable-fence/#comment-97 <strong>REST vs SOA: Round 991...</strong> About a month ago I read Scott Raymond's entry about implmenting a "crudy architecture", Refactoring to REST. A while ago, the tireless Mark Baker claimed "I’m confident that in time, you and others will come to appreciate why REST is an improvem... REST vs SOA: Round 991…

About a month ago I read Scott Raymond’s entry about implmenting a “crudy architecture”, Refactoring to REST. A while ago, the tireless Mark Baker claimed “I’m confident that in time, you and others will come to appreciate why REST is an improvem…

]]> By: bryan http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/the-unsittable-fence/comment-page-1/#comment-96 bryan Thu, 24 Aug 2006 11:07:31 +0000 http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/13/the-unsittable-fence/#comment-96 Well most SOA people I have talked to claim that SOA is more than Web Services. Some claim that REST is a valid SOA. Of course Web Services gurus claim that Web Services have nothing to do with the Web, so it seems like everyone is busy claiming they are not at all involved with anyone else, other than riding on their coattails (such as they are in the case of Web Services). Well most SOA people I have talked to claim that SOA is more than Web Services. Some claim that REST is a valid SOA. Of course Web Services gurus claim that Web Services have nothing to do with the Web, so it seems like everyone is busy claiming they are not at all involved with anyone else, other than riding on their coattails (such as they are in the case of Web Services).

]]> By: Brandon Smith » Splitting REST http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/the-unsittable-fence/comment-page-1/#comment-95 Brandon Smith » Splitting REST Fri, 18 Aug 2006 02:55:06 +0000 http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/13/the-unsittable-fence/#comment-95 [...] There is a Mark vs. Mark (gentle) debate about REST, SOA, and WS-*. (Hint: look at the comments…insightful). As for REST vs. SOA versus REST vs WS-*, I chose the former (despite noticing you using the latter) because you can’t really compare an architectural style to a set of specifications. [...] [...] There is a Mark vs. Mark (gentle) debate about REST, SOA, and WS-*. (Hint: look at the comments…insightful). As for REST vs. SOA versus REST vs WS-*, I chose the former (despite noticing you using the latter) because you can’t really compare an architectural style to a set of specifications. [...]

]]> By: Mark Little http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/the-unsittable-fence/comment-page-1/#comment-94 Mark Little Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:27:13 +0000 http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/13/the-unsittable-fence/#comment-94 We'll have to continue to agree to disagree then (for now) ;-) You're right in the apples-and-oranges comparison, but to many people REST is an implementation choice based on HTTP/WWW, whereas SOA=Web Services. I'm not one of those people BTW, but I do think that to many users and developers that's the choice as they see it: "do I implement using REST or using WS-*". The architectural nuances are lost on them, in much the same way that the architectural nuances of JEE/EJB3 or CORBA are often lost on end users. We’ll have to continue to agree to disagree then (for now) ;-) You’re right in the apples-and-oranges comparison, but to many people REST is an implementation choice based on HTTP/WWW, whereas SOA=Web Services. I’m not one of those people BTW, but I do think that to many users and developers that’s the choice as they see it: “do I implement using REST or using WS-*”. The architectural nuances are lost on them, in much the same way that the architectural nuances of JEE/EJB3 or CORBA are often lost on end users.

]]> By: Mark Baker http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/the-unsittable-fence/comment-page-1/#comment-93 Mark Baker Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:02:54 +0000 http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/13/the-unsittable-fence/#comment-93 I understand your view Mark, I just disagree, and I'm confident that in time, you and others will come to appreciate why REST is an improvement on SOA. As for REST vs. SOA versus REST vs WS-*, I chose the former (despite noticing you using the latter) because you can't really compare an architectural style to a set of specifications. "SOA" is the closest thing to an architectural style that Web services has, AFAIK, and I prefer to use it to get an apples-to-apples comparison. If you meant "HTTP & URIs" vs WS-* though, that would also be a valid comparison because both are specifications. As long as we pick a valid comparison, I'm happy. 8-) I understand your view Mark, I just disagree, and I’m confident that in time, you and others will come to appreciate why REST is an improvement on SOA.

As for REST vs. SOA versus REST vs WS-*, I chose the former (despite noticing you using the latter) because you can’t really compare an architectural style to a set of specifications. “SOA” is the closest thing to an architectural style that Web services has, AFAIK, and I prefer to use it to get an apples-to-apples comparison. If you meant “HTTP & URIs” vs WS-* though, that would also be a valid comparison because both are specifications. As long as we pick a valid comparison, I’m happy. 8-)

]]> By: Mark Little http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/the-unsittable-fence/comment-page-1/#comment-92 Mark Little Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:49:33 +0000 http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/13/the-unsittable-fence/#comment-92 BTW, if it was really that "plain and simple" we'd all be using REST by now. There are good technical and political arguments in both directions. One of my points is that we are wasting a good deal of effort in arguing something that isn't getting any closer to a resolution one way or another, and in the argument we risk losing sight of the real winners (or losers) in the debate: the end users. Oh, and by the way, my discussion wasn't on REST versus SOA, it was REST versus WS-*. A subtle though important difference. BTW, if it was really that “plain and simple” we’d all be using REST by now. There are good technical and political arguments in both directions. One of my points is that we are wasting a good deal of effort in arguing something that isn’t getting any closer to a resolution one way or another, and in the argument we risk losing sight of the real winners (or losers) in the debate: the end users.

Oh, and by the way, my discussion wasn’t on REST versus SOA, it was REST versus WS-*. A subtle though important difference.

]]> By: Mark Little http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/the-unsittable-fence/comment-page-1/#comment-91 Mark Little Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:39:48 +0000 http://www.markbaker.ca/blog/2006/08/13/the-unsittable-fence/#comment-91 I suppose as they say on the car adverts: your mileage may vary ;-) I suppose as they say on the car adverts: your mileage may vary ;-)

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