{"id":1203,"date":"2005-12-16T16:03:00","date_gmt":"2005-12-16T20:03:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.markbaker.ca\/wp\/2005\/12\/16\/when-soa-consultants-attack\/"},"modified":"2005-12-16T16:03:00","modified_gmt":"2005-12-16T20:03:00","slug":"when-soa-consultants-attack","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.markbaker.ca\/blog\/2005\/12\/when-soa-consultants-attack\/","title":{"rendered":"When SOA consultants attack!"},"content":{"rendered":"

Jeff Schneider apparently\ntakes offense<\/a>\nto my\nService Oriented Web<\/a>\npresentation;<\/p>\n\n

\nYes Mark, you can order a pizza with SOAP, with REST, with CORBA, with RMI, with EJB and more.\n<\/blockquote>\n\n

Don’t tell that to the designers of the WS-Splat stack. As late as 2002,\nI was still being told by some of them that REST based solutions required humans\nin the loop (and as late as this year, by a well known CTO of a public company in\nour industry!). Does that not concern you, that these bright folks – and they\nreally are bright, I’m not<\/em> being facetious – who much of the industry\nare entrusting their future architectural direction to – can make such a massive\nmistake? Does that not warrant further investigation, to see how that can happen,\nand more importantly, why<\/em> it happened? Is it not in the realm of\npossibility that the industry has simply screwed up in a very big way?<\/p>\n\n

\nWhat’s your point? The world needs REST? Let’s be clear: “REST” is unnecessary – as is all of this stuff! If we want to build our distributed systems with Sockets and EDI we could – BUT WE DON’T!\n<\/blockquote>\n\n

Jeff, the point of that part of the presentation was that in 1998, before SOAP\ncame along, we already had at our disposal the largest and most successful\ndistributed application in the history of mankind (hmm, I suppose it might have\nbeen smaller than email at the time, but worst case, second<\/em> largest),\nand it was capable of solving pretty much all the problems that Web services were\nbeing tapped to solve. The Web just needed some extensions; some things built on\ntop that leveraged what was beneath.<\/p>\n\n

We were already well on our way with the Web, to achieving what’s now known as\nthe “SOA vision”. Web services have set us back in that pursuit, at least six\nyears in real time, but architecturally, decades, since they’ve disregarded – no,\nexplicitly rejected<\/em> –\nknown best practices<\/a>\nfor large scale integration .<\/p>\n\n

That’s not worth calling out? I beg to differ.<\/p>\n\n

\nMark – if you want to compare and contrast REST and Web services than do it right. This is crap and you know it. The funny thing is, I’m a REST fan – I just can’t stomach this one-sided bullshit.\n<\/blockquote>\n\n

I don’t peddle crap, Jeff. It’s a perfectly valid comparison which I stand\nby 100%. Sometimes issues really are black and white, and this, very<\/em>\nregrettably, is\none of them<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n

I would, however, be interested to know what you mean by “do it right”.\nAre you saying that some things are best done with REST, and others with\nSOA? If so, please, do tell.<\/p>\n\n

P.S. Loved your\nshot at UDDI<\/a> 8-);<\/p>\n\n

\nThe UBR was a really dumb idea and we apologize for making you sit through lectures on a service oriented yellow pages hosted in the cloud\n<\/blockquote>\n\n

Gee, if only they listened to me back in 2000\/2001 when my startup joined on as\na UDDI promoter(?) and submitted a proposal suggesting that UDDI servers become\nWeb servers!<\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Jeff Schneider apparently takes offense to my Service Oriented Web presentation; Yes Mark, you can order a pizza with SOAP, with REST, with CORBA, with RMI, with EJB and more. Don’t tell that to the designers of the WS-Splat stack. As late as 2002, I was still being told by some of them that REST […]","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[26],"class_list":["post-1203","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-soap"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.markbaker.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1203","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.markbaker.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.markbaker.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.markbaker.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.markbaker.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1203"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"http:\/\/www.markbaker.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1203\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.markbaker.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1203"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.markbaker.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1203"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.markbaker.ca\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1203"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}